The Real Gun Guys

Range Day

Last Saturday Jeffersonian and I went up to the range to send some no-serialized bullets downrange, make a lot of noise and have a hell of a time, all in the interest of science, of course.

First up were the Mosins. Two M44’s and one M91/30. We each shot ten rounds of his handloads through each of the rifles and compared the results. Besides proving (again) that he’s a lot better shot than me (2MOA vs MONAZI), we also learned that the M91/30 shoots a lot better than the M44’s we had with us. The M91/30 shot consistently high and right(1 - 2 o’clock) about 4 inches with both of us shooting. With Jeffersonian shooting, it turned in a respectable 2MOA with both of our handloads. Not bad for a 70 year old military surplus Russian rifle with rudimentary sights and a crappy trigger. Now that I know it’ll do it, I think I’m going to spend some more money on this rifle and get it some decent sights or a scope, and an after market trigger.

Here’s the results from 100 yards with my handloads and Jeffersonian shooting. That tool is exactly 4 inches long.

Compared to mine. Yes, there’s five shots. There’s a flier in the upper right quadrant. I was shooting some of Jeffersonians handloads. Notice the POI is basically the same.

Here I am touching of one of my handloads.

From there we moved on over to the Garand. It is my intention to shoot in the May Garand match at the range, so Jeffersonian let me touch off a few rounds. Once I got used to the sight picture I managed to send my last six shots into the black from 100 yards. Yes, there’s seven holes, but one of those (9 ring, 4 o’clock) is left over from the Mosin experiment.

Here’s some bonus footage of Jeffersonian shooting his Garand.

From there we headed up to the top range and tried to get my SKS sighted in. With his help, we were able to establish that it was grouping at least (4 - 5 MOA), but some sighting issues may be contributing to the problems I have been having. A) the scope is mounted high. There may be no getting around that because of the way I’ve had to mount it. B) the scope is canted slightly, increasing the parallax error. I’m going to correct those as best I can and try again with more factory ammo. Speaking of which, I think the surplus ammo I had may have been contributing to the inaccuracy too, because with Winchester FMJ’s the rifle was grouping.

Here’s a target shot at 25 yards. The trend continued out to 50 yards, ending up high and right, but we ran out of ammo and time so I’ll have to come back once I get the scope adjusted and try again.

Finally, here’s some more video of Jeffersonian shooting the SKS. I’d have some of me, but he was busy trying out a rifle of his own while I was taking my turn. Next time, I promise!

Well, we both learned a lot from our day at the range. Now I can’t wait to get back up there and get in some more trigger time. Lord knows I need it! *grin*

UPDATE: I accidentally left out the load information for the 7.62×54R loads we used. Mine was prvi-partizan brass and 150gn (.311) FMJBT bullets over 43.9gn IMR 3031 with a Winchester WLR primer. Loaded to a 2.9″ COAL. Sierra manual lists a 2,500fps MV but I didn’t have a chronograph. Jeffersonians was 125gr (.311) Sierra Pro Hunter #2305 flat-base Spitzer soft-point bullets, S&B case, 50.5gn H380 and Winchester WLR primer. Loaded to 2.85″ COAL. He has clocked this load doing an average of 2,534fps through the chronograph. Both loads were run through the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

UPDATE II: I just discovered that the scope rings on my SKS are loose enough that I can rotate the red dot with firm hand pressure. Unacceptable. I will be locking them down with some locktite ASAP. This would explain the reason the scope was canted to the left.

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Range Day

Neither rain, nor snow, nor sleet, nor ill health shall keep the shooter from going to the range. It was cold and rainy yesterday and I wasn’t feeling in the best of health, but I went anyway. Heck, I had guns to shoot and shit.

Mossberg Single Shot .22 (anything):

I got this rifle at the Barberton gun show several months ago for my son to learn on when I feel he is ready for it. It languished for several months in a gunsmiths shop when I found out it wouldn’t fire. I bought a replacement firing pin and took it in, but he never got around to it. I got it back and at the last show a gun savvy guy there helped me get the new firing pin installed. Once I got it home, I pulled the bullets from two .22lr cartridges and dumped the powder. I verified that the primer fired on both and put it away until I went up to the range the next day.

Now I’m getting light strikes about 3/4 of the time, although it will fire if the phases of the moon are just right. I also had a problem of cases sticking in the chamber. No, I was not using Remington Golden Bullet ammo, I was using bulk pack Federal which I’ve had zero problems with.

Of the rounds that did fire the POI was way down and to the right at 25 yards. Obviously the sights need adjustment too. I’ll continue to work on it as I have time and money.

One thing I found odd was the ejection. Fired cases ejected almost straight ahead of the rifle, while unfired cases ejected to the right. I’ve never had a rifle do this before. Peculiar, but not really a bad thing. Like I said, it’s just odd.

Yugo SKS (again):

Well, what can I say. *sigh* I set out a target at 100 yards and only had one strike out of a magazine. The POI was way high. Back to 25 yards I came and soon had it zeroed from real good.

I then went back to 100 yards and was hitting high, then low after adjustment and lastly to the right. It was like buckshot…

Something I don’t quite understand is going on and I don’t yet know precisely what it is.

Either the scope or the mount is shifting under recoil. I’ve already locktited the set screws on the mount. The scope is supposed to be able to handle the recoil too, so I don’t know. I’ll keep working at it.

I ran out of time and was going to chrono some Mosin rounds, but it turns out that all of the clubs chrono’s have either been shot, or are otherwise non-functional. I don’t have one either, so I guess I’m going to have to get one for myself next month, finances willing.

All in all it was a frustrating day at the range, but it was still fun getting outside!

UPDATE: Upon cleaning I have discovered the screws on the scope rings themselves have come loose. These are the ones on the bottom which connect the rings to the scope rail. The front one was loose enough I could turn it with my fingers and the rear one was rattling it was so loose.Looks like I’m going to have to locktite them too.

I originally tightened them down with a pair of channel lock pliers so I know they were tight. The screws holding the mount to the gun are still tight, as are the ones holding the rail posts into the mount. I guess another range day is in order.

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Range Day

I managed to get up to the range this afternoon, but I forgot they were on winter hours so I only had an hour to shoot until they closed. So all I had time to do was re-sight in my SKS. I only had time to sight it in at 25 yards, but I plan to go back up there on Friday.

The results were much better today thanks to the thread locker I put on the scope mount set screws; the red dot scope remained rock solid.

I started out with a bore sighter stuck in the end of the barrel and then adjusted the red dot so it was showing the same POI. That done, I took out the bore sighter and loaded the magazine from a fresh 10 round clip. Three shots later I looked into the spotting scope and saw this.

It’s a nice grouping (1″=4MOA@25′), but it was about 8.5″ higher than where I was aiming. Was the bullet rising? I don’t know, but I’ve experienced the same phenomenon before with other calibers and guns.

I dialed down the elevation and adjusted the windage a few times until I was hitting the center of the target. I found out today if I dialed down the scopes brightness to 5 or under, the apparent size of the dot shrunk and I was able to get much better accuracy. It may seem like a no-brainer I guess, but it hadn’t occurred to me until today.

Since I couldn’t go out and change targets, being short on time, I decided to pump a few rapid fire magazines through the paper and see what kind of grouping I could get.

Not bad… The sprinkling of hits around the hole in the paper are from when I went a little crazy with the sighting in. There is also two ragged holes in the target, one on top of the other. The bottom one from the sighting in process, and the top 2″ - 3″ one which have merged.

Not bad I say, considering I had less than an hour of trigger time and was unable to change targets. In addition to the Sarah Brady targets I also have some human silhouette targets I was going to put up at 100 yards. They’ll keep till Friday I suppose.

Here’s an overview of the whole target:

Remember folks, the worst day at the range beats the best day anywhere else!

UPDATE: DoubleTapper reminded me to include a picture of the SKS I used, which I somehow forgot to post originally. Sorry about that, here it is.

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Sarah Brady Cries! Film at Eleven!

Last Friday I went up to my range to practice for the monthly Plate Match which was held the next day. I was unable to go to the match because of a family emergency, but still it was good to get some trigger time in anyway.

Thanks to Robb at Sharp as a Marble, I had a fresh supply of “Every time you hit a bullseye, Sarah Brady cries!” targets with me. Thanks Robb! They’re great targets and the guys at the range loved them.

Here’s the scoop on the Plate Match. The .22lr division shoots a 6″ plate from about 15 - 17 yards, roughly the same distance as the pistol range. Robb’s targets have one big 10″ target and two 6″ targets. First I’d warm up on the large target and then shoot the lower targets rapid fire to simulate the Plate Match. Rapid fire meaning 3-4 shots a second until I’d emptied the magazine (10 rounds). In this case, hitting anywhere within the 6″ circle is considered a hit, as it would certainly knock down the steel plate at the match. Having the targets the same size as the plates worked out great too!

Here we have an example of the target I was using:

And here are a selection of smaller targets in no particular order. I should point out that most of the “misses” on the smaller targets can be traced to screw-ups in shooting the larger target. Usually when I got a little too fast for my own good. *blush*

Next Friday, my birthday oddly enough, I intend to make another range trip to re-sight-in my SKS. Seems last time I shot it, the recoil was harsh enough to loosen the set screws on the scout mount. I took it down and applied lock-tite to them and put everything back together. When I did I noticed that the red dot was no longer anywhere near where the rifle was pointing. I’ve bore sighted it down the hall, but it definitely needs to be re-sighted before I trust it to 100 yards again. And yes, I’ll be shooting more Sarah Brady targets too. Time willing I’ll try and get more hand gun practice in and perhaps try out some of my newly minted Mosin rounds. We’ll see…

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Target from yesterday

Yes, obviously I need to practice a bit more with this weapon, but I’m still not upset with the results so far.

I can’t help but think I’d have better results with some handloaded ammo. I’ll have to see about getting some brass and projectiles…

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A little of this, and a little bit of that…

I’m feeling a lot better than I was a couple of weeks ago, although I’m still not as strong as I was. How exactly do I feel you ask? Here, I’ll let Ozzy Osbourne tell you.

I was well enough to go to the range today and took my SKS along with me. I put something in the neighborhood of 80-100 rounds downrange. It felt good to get back out on the range, even if it was finger numbingly cold. The first thing I did is remove the bolt and rough bore site the red dot scope at 25 yards, and once I was hitting well I moved it out to 50, and then 100 yards.

Okay, firstly, the red dot scope has a 4 MOA dot and no magnification (nothing wrong with that), which means that at 100 yards the dot covers a 4″ circle. By the time I left I was placing the vast majority of the rounds (mil-surp) within that circle at 100 yards. I’ll post a picture later when my camera battery recharges. Secondly, the SKS was never intended to be a sub-MOA rifle. It was made specifically to be just good enough to hit a man sized target in battle and that’s it. Yes, I’ll say it. The SKS was designed to kill people. That is it’s function and there’s nothing wrong with that. And at risk of people misunderstanding me, that’s why I have it.

May I remind everyone of the Korean shop owners (look at the bottom of the Service & the Second Day sections respectively) who defended their homes and business’s during the LA riots with the very same rifle and kept the murderous hordes at bay? And do I even have to bring up Katrina? After today’s range session I know I can hit a man sized object 100 yards away from me with this rifle and there’s comfort in that. There’s nothing like fellow rioters falling all around you screaming to make you change your course of action. If they get closer there’s always the 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buckshot, the 9mm and/or the .357 Magnum.

Don’t tell me I’m paranoid. In light of recent events, a person would have to be an idiot to go unarmed anywhere in public. Yes, one armed citizen is all it takes to stop a psychotic bent on mass murder. The same people who think it’s crazy to carry a weapon think it’s perfectly reasonable to have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in their houses. “What, are you expecting trouble?” they’ll say, the obvious comeback being, “What, are you expecting a fire?”

Remember the Boy Scout Motto: “Be prepared.”

Something that’s eating at me a bit happened during my day at the range today. One of the RSO’s (a very friendly individual) was talking to another shooter during a break in the shooting and I overheard them talking about gun shows. The RSO stated to the other that gun shows were attended by 10% legal gun owners, 10% law enforcement, and the other 80% were criminals looking to find a cheap gun. The other guy agreed and soon thereafter the “unlicensed dealer” straw man was brought up. They both seemed to think that Oregon had it right in requiring every gun sale be handled through an FFL and NICS. I interjected that in Washington, the WAC puts on the majority of gun shows and you can’t buy a gun at a WAC show without being a member, and they do background checks on their members. I also pointed out that statistically, nationwide, less than .1% of crime guns come from gun shows. I never really did get a real response from the two of them. Turns out they’re both employed in law enforcement. *sigh* I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out they both believed that something called an “Assault Weapon” really exists.

Anyway, I’m tired and my leg’s starting to ache…and the kids need to eat something, so I’ll sign off for now.

Later!

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SKS Redux

A loyal reader read about the problems I was having with my red dot on my SKS and donated one of his red dot scopes. Thanks to him, I now have a high quality red dot on my SKS. I haven’t been able to get out to the range yet, but I plan to go out this Friday and get it sighted in. At the same time I plan on testing the new vertical compensator on my Ruger 22/45 and make sure the POI hasn’t shifted. The red dot is a Walther Top Point II, and according to the manual, is able to handle the recoil of a full sized .357 Magnum, so I have no doubt it can handle an intermediate cartridge like the 7.62×39mm in a heavy SKS.

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